This episode is with Denis Noble. He is a renowned biologist, physiologist, and systems theorist, known for his pioneering research in the fields of cardiac physiology and systems biology. Noble's early work on the electrical activity of the heart was centered on this topic, and he was the first to put forth the notion of the cardiac action potential, which is now generally recognized in the field. He has also contributed significantly to our understanding of cardiac arrhythmias, irregular heart rhythms that can cause serious health concerns. In addition to his work in cardiac physiology, Noble has been a critical player in the development of systems biology, which aims to comprehend complex biological systems by integrating data from different sources. He has also been a vocal proponent of using mathematical and computational approaches in biology, and his work has contributed to developing a new paradigm for biological research. In this conversation we talk about the topics related to evolution, including Neo-Darwinism, the role of DNA as information, the use of genes as templates for evolution, the emerging field of epigenetics, the significance of bioelectricity, and potential future directions for evolutionary research.